The Cloud of Unknowing: This anonymous 14th-century English spiritual classic advocates for an apophatic (negative) theology, where practitioners step beyond rational thought into "a cloud of forgetting" to reach God through love rather than intellect. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBffy_Pqyq0&t=21]
The Occult: Focuses on the knowledge and manipulation of invisible forces. While it occasionally intersects with Christian Gnosticism and Kabbalah, occultism operates under a much broader framework of secret wisdom and universal energies, rather than a purely relational God
Many Anglican esotericists view the core sacraments of the Church (like the Eucharist and Holy Unction) as a form of "Divine Magic". The rituals of blessing and consecration—which invoke the Holy Spirit to transform physical elements (bread, wine, and oil) into spiritual conduits—parallel ceremonial magic operations.
Ultimately, understanding the Anglican rite as "imaginary" highlights how its liturgical identity is highly flexible. Rather than being governed by rigid, universal rubrics, it thrives as an interpretive tradition shaped by local cultural expression and individual spiritual imagination.
Thank you Fr, great stuff as always. You always illuminate my mind. Thank you for the time, effort and attention given to this study.
I suggest you are in humbling company as you read my words cause I’m Karma Kagyu
I’m a expert on occult having been a bookseller who ordered the occult section for a decade so you are limited in my view
Yes, you keep saying so.
As I say I’m Empowered and you are not and not likely to be so maybe you could improve your intellect by study and prayer ?
I’m glad to hear you are paying attention despite being complacent in assuming you with be fit for Vajrayana teachings
It’s a special privilege and should not be assumed to be for laggards
Not bad but not great either
You could do better
Anglican mysticism and the occult share a surprisingly deep, complex historical relationship. While orthodox Anglicanism focuses on sacramental grace and incarnational theology, it has historically provided an intellectual haven for esoteric Christianity, particularly through the Anglo-Catholic movement. [https://www.stthomaschilliwack.org/about/anglican-spirituality, https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/14-december/features/features/on-the-wings-of-the-dawn-the-lure-of-the-occult, https://www.growchristians.org/2023/06/15/the-powerful-and-practical-witness-of-evelyn-underhill/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Underhill]
1. The Core: Anglican Mysticism
Unlike the occult, mysticism within the Anglican tradition is fundamentally about a direct, loving union with God. It is deeply rooted in both scripture and the writings of historical English mystics: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Anglicanism/comments/1e8seur/lectio_divina_anglican_mysticism/, https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-place-of-mysticism-in-anglicanism.8116937/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism, https://www.stthomaschilliwack.org/about/anglican-spirituality]
The Cloud of Unknowing: This anonymous 14th-century English spiritual classic advocates for an apophatic (negative) theology, where practitioners step beyond rational thought into "a cloud of forgetting" to reach God through love rather than intellect. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBffy_Pqyq0&t=21]
Julian of Norwich: Known for her Revelations of Divine Love, her writings famously explore the divine maternal nature of God and emphasize that "all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well." [https://www.chisholme.org/resources/overview/the-divine-feminine.html, https://chireviewofbooks.com/2024/10/21/uncovering-truths-eluded-by-language-in-mysticism/, https://scroll.in/article/1088940/radical-intimacy-wisdom-from-mirabai-akka-mahadevi-and-other-pre-modern-women-mystics]
Evelyn Underhill: One of the most famous 20th-century Anglican mystics, Underhill bridged early 20th-century romanticism and Christian practice, asserting that the sacred is found within the mundane. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Underhill, https://www.growchristians.org/2023/06/15/the-powerful-and-practical-witness-of-evelyn-underhill/]
2. The Esoteric and Occult Crossover
While mainstream Anglicanism strictly warns against occult practices like divination or witchcraft, Western esotericism—often viewed as the intellectual study of invisible forces—has historically attracted Anglican clergymen and laypersons: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Anglicanism/comments/1cuyonl/esotericism_at_my_aunts_house/, https://incarnateword.in/mtalks/talks-of-the-mother-1947-1960/mysticism-and-occultism, https://www.royalgazette.com/religion/lifestyle/article/20241026/reject-halloween-its-a-celebration-of-evil/, https://www.equip.org/hank_speaks_out/the-occult/, https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/14-december/features/features/on-the-wings-of-the-dawn-the-lure-of-the-occult]
Anglo-Catholic Hermeticism: During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, occult societies like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn recruited heavily from Anglican clergy. Priests like the Reverend William Alexander Ayton maintained alchemical laboratories and integrated esoteric theories into their Christian worldview. [https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/14-december/features/features/on-the-wings-of-the-dawn-the-lure-of-the-occult]
The "Enchanted" Modernity: Some prominent authors and thinkers in the Anglican fold, such as Arthur Machen, balanced Anglo-Catholic faith with deep occult knowledge, viewing these traditions as empirical defenses of an enchanted, supernatural universe. [https://amishcatholic.com/2018/12/14/anglo-catholics-and-the-occult-my-church-times-debut/, https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-place-of-mysticism-in-anglicanism.8116937/, https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/14-december/features/features/on-the-wings-of-the-dawn-the-lure-of-the-occult]
Christian Theosophy: Thinkers like William Law deeply embraced the works of the esotericist Jacob Böhme, introducing mystical and speculative philosophy into the mainstream Anglican sphere. [https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-place-of-mysticism-in-anglicanism.8116937/]
3. Key Differences and Boundaries
Understanding the intersection of these two concepts requires recognizing how they diverge: [https://guides.monmouth.edu/Occult/mysticism, https://incarnateword.in/mtalks/talks-of-the-mother-1947-1960/mysticism-and-occultism]
Anglican Mysticism: A devotional, heart-centered communion with the Triune God, achieved through prayer (such as Centering Prayer and Lectio Divina). It remains rooted in Christology and orthodox Church structures. [https://conversatio.org/mysticism-peril-or-promise/, https://www.stthomaschilliwack.org/about/anglican-spirituality, https://www.reddit.com/r/Anglicanism/comments/1e8seur/lectio_divina_anglican_mysticism/, https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-place-of-mysticism-in-anglicanism.8116937/]
The Occult: Focuses on the knowledge and manipulation of invisible forces. While it occasionally intersects with Christian Gnosticism and Kabbalah, occultism operates under a much broader framework of secret wisdom and universal energies, rather than a purely relational God
Occult and the Anglo-Catholic Clergy
In the 19th and 20th centuries, many Anglican priests—particularly those in the Anglo-Catholic "High Church" movement—were deeply involved in Western esoteric traditions like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn. Priests, such as the Rev. William Alexander Ayton, were prominent ritual magicians who viewed esoteric studies as an extension of Christian mysticism. [https://livingchurch.org/covenant/theology-and-occult-science/, https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/14-december/features/features/on-the-wings-of-the-dawn-the-lure-of-the-occult, https://www.egypttoursportal.com/blog/ancient-egyptian-civilization/ancient-egyptian-magic-and-witchcraft/]
2. John Dee and Enochian Magic
Anglicanism is historically linked to Enochian magic, a system of ceremonial magic developed in the 16th century. Its creator, Dr. John Dee, was the trusted court astrologer and advisor to Queen Elizabeth I—the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. Dee’s system, involving the invocation of angels and the use of a purported angelic language, continues to influence modern occultism. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enochian_magic, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbKK7Z7AFsE&t=174, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx4MjNnWD94&t=59, https://in.pinterest.com/pin/515099276155788990/]
3. Sacramentalism as "Divine Magic"
Many Anglican esotericists view the core sacraments of the Church (like the Eucharist and Holy Unction) as a form of "Divine Magic". The rituals of blessing and consecration—which invoke the Holy Spirit to transform physical elements (bread, wine, and oil) into spiritual conduits—parallel ceremonial magic operations.
All true - there’s an interesting PhD thesis on it, somewhere on the web.
Say something clever so I can sneer at you
So perhaps you should be chastened ?
That’s the school where I survived a school shooting next to my classroom
I’m taught by old school Augustinians and I went to seminary school
The "Anglican rite" is often described as an imaginary construct, referring to the unique liturgical expressions of Anglican heritage. It is not an independent, distinct sui juris rite like those in the Eastern Catholic Churches. Instead, it blends the Reformed tradition with Catholic sacramental theology. [https://northamanglican.com/is-anglicanism-catholic-or-protestant/, https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/115111/re-anglican-rite-creation-a-possibility, https://firstthings.com/anglican-imaginary/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglicanism, https://anglicancompass.com/the-acnas-2019-book-of-common-prayer-bcp-a-rookie-anglican-guide/]
Anglican liturgical heritage traces back to Thomas Cranmer’s Book of Common Prayer, which reformed earlier Latin traditions into English. It relies heavily on aesthetic and imaginative elements, engaging the senses through poetic language (like traditional thee and thou), choral music, and embodied physical gestures. [https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2011/07/monsignor-andrew-burnham-what-is.html, https://www.anglicannews.org/news/2005/12/liturgy-and-anglican-identity.aspx, https://www.piercedhands.com/the-anglican-use-mass/, https://www.partielo.com/revision/note/the-english-reformation/34518, https://medium.com/@keith.turner_83061/presuming-humble-access-2bfd5ad5ddfe]
For former Anglicans, the concept extends to Roman Catholicism via the https://ordinariate.net/, which allow converts to retain elements of their liturgical and spiritual heritage while in full communion with the Pope. This blending of Catholic structure with traditional Anglican liturgy is commonly called the "Anglican Use". [https://www.facebook.com/groups/AnglicanCatholics/posts/2621955534482494/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_ordinariate, https://www.facebook.com/AleteiaEn/posts/the-vatican-recently-highlighted-traits-of-the-personal-ordinariates-for-former-/1256747653289178/, https://sttimsocsp.cc/about-the-ordinariate/, https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/115111/re-anglican-rite-creation-a-possibility]
Ultimately, understanding the Anglican rite as "imaginary" highlights how its liturgical identity is highly flexible. Rather than being governed by rigid, universal rubrics, it thrives as an interpretive tradition shaped by local cultural expression and individual spiritual imagination.
So I would assume you are my lesser in this area ? Due to age and wisdoms and the fact I’m Karma Kagyu and well your lineage is imaginary
As a recipient of theological teachings since 1964 I have some life experience in the practice of religion and I’m very very well informed and cruel
I’m an intellectual not your usual wanna be with out life experience
My best pal was a Buddhist monk at age 22 and we studied dharma before you were fucking born